Proof that Dinosaurs lived with People

Proof that Dinosaurs lived with People image

I just watched a video on YouTube that showed various evidences that Dinosaurs did indeed live with People (as stated in Genesis of the Bible). The video is about 26 minutes long, and presented by Creationist Chemist John Pendleton.

Watch the video here if you cannot see this video in your email or RSS reader.

He does a very good job at presenting the mounting evidence that Dinosaurs lived with people. One great example is the fact that human footprints are being found right next to, and even on top of, dinosaur ones!

If, like me, you’re fed up with having evolution presented as fact, then this video is well worth a watch. If you’re an evolutionist, then I highly recommend it.

Do you want to become a Christian?

Are You a Christian? If not, then do You want to know about who Jesus Christ actually is? Read More Here and Don't Delay!

►► Why Not Check Out These Great Posts...

55 thoughts on “Proof that Dinosaurs lived with People

  1. Its nice that you have a personal belief and all, but stop shoving it down people’s throats. You don’t have to show which religion you’re from and what you believe to every human being you encounter.

    **Deleted sentence**… But it’s NOT okay to shove it down mine, or anyone else’s throats.

  2. ^^ and to follow up, most of the “evidence” presented in that video could have multiple explanations. Evolution is presented as a fact, because it IS. If you’re going to bash on scientific methods, facts, and theories, then do yourself a favor and learn how they work first. Otherwise, you’ll just end up making a fool of yourself.

  3. @Dustie → I hardly see how I am “shoving this down your throat”. Blogging is one of the most passive forms of getting a massage out. You came to my blog by your own decision; you were not forced.

    For more information on What the Bible says about Creation vs. evolution, I recommend this article: http://www.gotquestions.org/creation-evolution.html

    Thanks for sharing your opinions, but don’t swear or be crude on this blog again.

  4. Wow, I was following you on twitter and had no idea you were so out of touch with reality.

    I mean it’s one thing to believe in the possibility of a prime mover, a grand architect etc, but to be convinced that the completely outdated, blatantly wrong and in a lot of cases morally offensive drivel contained in the bible is the word of an intelligent loving god is just delusional. To take it one step further and buy into the desperately insane rantings of a so called scientist who believes the MOUNTAIN of evidence discovered SO FAR is wrong……….. well, that’s just really really desperate.

    I know you claim to feel the existance of god, it’s a personal relationship that you have with the lord almighty, but think for a moment about all the people (and there are millions) convinced that THEY have a personal relationshp with a DIFFERENT god. Anyone that applies critical thinking to the subject of religion shouldn’t take long to realise that any books claiming to be the inerrant word of god were written by man. I mean, i read the old testament recently, have you?

    “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”

    “Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings”

    The sooner we get off this rock and spread out into the universe the sooner the part of the human race concerned with reality and the truth distance itself from the dangerous religious nut jobs

  5. @Matt → If you hear a lie about Christianity enough times, you’re likely to believe it if you have no spiritual discernment.

    Yes, the bloke in the video isn’t the best presenter on the planet, but the evidence he speaks of is very noteworthy. I’ve read some of the stories before from better sources, too.

    Even if I had no shred of evidence regarding creation; I would still believe it as the Word of the LORD states how things began.

    To the unsaved, such things we Christians believe seem like foolishness.

    If you think I’m a fool, then I’m a fool for Jesus Christ.

    Like it or not Matt, all people will face Judgement after death.

    Psalm 53:1-4 (ESV)
     

    [53:1] The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, doing abominable iniquity;
    there is none who does good.

    [2] God looks down from heaven
    on the children of man
    to see if there are any who understand,
    who seek after God.

    [3] They have all fallen away;
    together they have become corrupt;
    there is none who does good,
    not even one.

    [4] Have those who work evil no knowledge,
    who eat up my people as they eat bread,
    and do not call upon God? 

  6. Wow, I just had to comment when I saw the comment by matt. That’s quite an example of some emotional ad hominem argumentation!

    I mean it’s one thing to disagree, but to use that kind of argumentation is just plain foolish. Maybe you could provide some of that “MOUNTAIN” of evidence for evolution, instead of just presupposing it’s truthfulness and bashing anyone who disagrees.

  7. English isnt my first language so dont complain about bad grammar :)

    First off, who is this guy and why would I believe anything he sais? Because he’s wearing a white lab coat? I can buy one of those.

    Where are the sources for his claims? The T-Rex bone he’s talking about. Where is it? Who has it? What impartiall studies has been done on it?
    And even if there were “a part of it” that wasn’t fossialised, it wouldnt prove anything. What about the parts that are? That cant happen in 100-2000 years.

    None of the “evidence” he’s talking about have been proven. And if you are about to stand up and try to debunk PROVEN scientific theories (creationism isnt a scientific theory, btw way. A theory must have been tested and can be falsefiable) then you have to follow the scientific method. Not just saying a bunch of unproven, useless and unrelated stories.

    If anyone see this move as evidence for anything else than the despertation of creationism, then you should really check your head.

    Andrew… your response to Matt’s post just shows off your ignorance… i mean: “Even if I had no shred of evidence regarding creation; I would still believe it as the Word of the LORD states how things began.”

    That’s the thing. You DONT have a shred of evidence. No one have ever presentet any evidence that cant be explained without a creator or is totally irrelevant.

  8. @Miska → Indeed, there is No evidence for evolution at all. The the supposed “evidence” is seen through the evolution Theory, and interpreted in that way. Thanks for the support :)

    @Magnus → I’m not an expert here. I’ve seen plenty of creationism articles over the years, and adversely, I’ve watched and read plenty more that support evolution.

    In regards to the T-Rex story, here’s a link to this Secular post about it (which also confirms soft tissue has been found in a T-Rex bone): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683/

    As a creationist, I’ve read my fair share of evolutionary articles, so may I suggest you read some creationist ones? A good place to start is over at Creation Magazine @ http://creation.com/creation-magazine

  9. I have read far to many christian and creationist articles. None of them have done anything but trying to debunk small specific parts of the evolutionary theory. ANd that amaizes me. If creationism could hold its ground, then they should try to present evidence FOR creationism, not try to debunk solid theoris. Disproving one theory doesnt prove another.

    If you say that there isnt any evidence for evolution, then there is no point discussing it futher. It just proves that you havent study the subject at all and have absolutely no clue what a scientific theory is.

  10. @Magnus → If you ever want to ask me anything about Christianity in the future, I’ll be here to lend my opinion for you.

    I hope you have a good life; you’re entitled to believe what you want.

    Thanks for your contribution to this debate.

  11. One last thing. the link to the t-rex tissue. Quote from one of the scientists (Brooks Hanson, a deputy editor of Science): “That’s why in a 70 million-year-old fossil it is so interesting,”

    Didnt the guy in the clip say that it cant be more than 100-2000 years old?

  12. @Miska → Do you really want me to post links to all the evidence there is? You know, links to the facts as agreed by an overwhealming majority of scientists as the the most likely explanation of where we came from. Of course not because as you stated you’ve read them and you don’t care, god is real because you ‘just know it and feel it’ Come on that is the kind of response you’d expect from a 5 year old, or someone with no credible evidence to support their position.

    Andrew → Seriously mate, I’d love there to be a god, not the Christian one of course as he’s about a immoral as they come.

    Slavery – repeatedly condoned in the bible. Am I wrong about that or is it just my interpretation that is inaccurate. I don’t see how exodus 21:20-21 about the treatment of slaves is open to any interpretation at all.

    Killing – Man there is a lot of killing in the bible. In fact a worrying ammount for the so called ‘good book’.

    God repeatedly kills lots of people, In Numbers 3:1 god commands Moses to Kill all the Midianites INCLUDING the children (can you really claim innocent children deserved that) Oh sorry yeah, that’s the thing isn’t it, we are all born ‘sinful’ and commanded to be ‘pure’. So I guess the kids just didn’t get the chance to prove their devotion to god ‘cos their parents screwed up. That seems fair to me.

    The whole bit about god commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son isaac. OK so an angel stopped him, but hey it’s a great little reminder that you should have blind obedience to god no matter what, surrender your mind and your morality, obey without thought etc. etc. Cruel acts are justified if you believe god commanded it. This is a disgusting and completely immoral story.

    Really you people should open your minds and think about why you believe what you do. But I guess your critical thinking abilities are at about the level of those convinced that people exist that can Dowse for water, or bend spoons, or communicate with the dead, and if you didn’t believe in the magical sky daddy watching over us you’d be online spouting rubbish about those myths.

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

    PLEASE i challenge ONE of you to explain to me why you believe god, oh sorry YOUR GOD exists without resorting to “well look at the trees etc, someone had to have made them” or “because I feel it in my heart”.

  13. Magnus wrote “If anyone see this move as evidence for anything else than the despertation of creationism, then you should really check your head.”

    Well, it seems like the evolutionists just continue with their ad hominem attacks. Maybe you should check your argumentation instead of just implying that others are stupid if they don’t believe (yes, believe) in evolution.

  14. “Maybe you should check your argumentation instead of just implying that others are stupid if they don’t believe (yes, believe) in evolution.”

    …that argument is so old. “Evolution is a belief”.
    You know what? It isn’t. Evolution have been proven again and again. Religion? God? A creator? Not so much. That is acctually the big difference between facts (incl. evolution) and belief (read religion and what ever super natural you want to put here).

    I dont care if people believe in god, ghosts, unicorns, fairys, flying spaghetti monster or what ever. It is when they claim it as fact (without ever being able to back it up without the bible or personal stories) i get annoyed. Especially when they try to debunk solid, proven and REAL evidence for things like evolution.

    Saw your comment above: “Maybe you could provide some of that “MOUNTAIN” of evidence for evolution, instead of just presupposing it’s truthfulness and bashing anyone who disagrees.”

    That is another proof of ignorance. No one have ever claimed that evolution explains anything about mountains or the creation of earth. It just proofs that you dont even know what evolution is trying to say.

  15. There is tons of evidence for evolution. You just don’t accept it as such. Accepting evolution would throw your precious religion into quarrels again. Its been done thousands of times throughout history. The planet being the center of the universe, us being the only possible life in the universe etc. So if you’re going to believe what someone wrote in a book thousands of years ago, over scientific development today, you ned a reality check. Those same people believes the earth was flat, eating pork was a sin, and marrying a woman who wasn’t a virgin was a crime (the wife had to be killed by the way. Better protect yours!)

    Here are some links to articles, some recent, on evolution having proof.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/100901-science-animals-evolution-australia-lizard-skink-live-birth-eggs/

    http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_evolution.html

    Just google some stuff. There are equal arguments about it being real and not, but if not, why are people different today than they were a thousand years ago? Don’t be thick skulled. Its fine that you have your religion, and its even okay that you boast it about (although very annoying), but don’t start discrediting proven scientific studies and results as false because your precious little book tells you to. You have to look at both sides of an argument, and currently, you’re looking at one. There is “proof” that evolution is a hoax sure, but research any of those leads any farther than a few links on the latter, and you’ll see they come from the same people claiming to have a personal landline to god, or people of the likes of hitler.

  16. Clearly i’m in the wrong here. my “belief” in things that can be proven time and time again through experimentation is entirely false. I should pick up my bible (yes, I’m christian!) and believe totally and absolutely every word my imaginary god (whom, nobody has ever seen) tell me.

    I believe in jesus, and god, and most things Christianity. Its a welcome explanation to the things science cannot sometimes explain. But when I have an experiment providing hard, physical proof of something, that just doesn’t hold up over what my little book is telling me to believe.

    If I told you the sky as pink, would you believe me? Of course not, you’ve seen it time and time again blue! I’m not saying you’re wrong for believing in your own thing, or wrong for being religious. But if you let your religion and beliefs overrule scientific facts, you ARE an idiot.

  17. matt wrote: “@Miska → Do you really want me to post links to all the evidence there is??”

    Yes, I really would want that. But if you think that’s too much to ask, then could you even give one link that gives the best scientific proof for evolution?

    matt wrote: “Of course not because as you stated you’ve read them and you don’t care, god is real because you ‘just know it and feel it’ Come on that is the kind of response you’d expect from a 5 year old, or someone with no credible evidence to support their position.”

    Maybe you should ease up with your ad hominem attacks and just read the comments again, since I never stated anything like that.

  18. Magnus wrote: “That is another proof of ignorance. No one have ever claimed that evolution explains anything about mountains or the creation of earth. It just proofs that you dont even know what evolution is trying to say.”

    Neither have I. If this is proof of any ignorance it’s just proof of your own ignorance in reading the comments and making too hasty judgements. If you read again the first comment by matt and then my comment that you responded to, you should see that you completely misunderstood what I wrote. I was just referring to the statement made my matt, about there being a mountain (meaning a lot) of evidence for evolution. So ease up with your false accusations.

  19. Miska -> Then i did missunderstand you.
    Regarding mountains of evidence for evolution… there is mountains.. just look on “evolution” on wikipedia and read the links at the bottom. There are over 300 references and links to external sources. You might want to read the text on wikipedia as well. It’s quite good.

    If you dont feel like reading, here you can watch some movies that are easy to follow: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/educators/teachstuds/svideos.html

    PBS have done a nice work here…

  20. Andrew Kelsall -> I still havent got a response about the t-rex tissue. Is it proof that it cant be more than 100-2000 years old, like he sais in the movie? Or is it “a 70 million-year-old fossil” as the scientist in the link you posted as proof, said.

    (btw, who is that guy in the movie and why is he a authority on the subject? Is he a scientist? Where did he get his degree? In what field? I googled his name and didnt find any useful info.)

  21. Miska → You are correct, that was Andrews comment, and probably from one of the other threads I was reading. I appologise for that. I’m guessing you are not a young earth creationist then. More of a liberal, open to interpretation, don’t take every single word of the bible literally, it’s just a guide etc.etc kind of christian.

    Is there really any point continuing this debate ,about evolution? I will post a link to one of the many thousands of pages on the internet, or books on Amazon outlining the current widely accepted facts of evolution and you will refute it by posting a link to a “why evolution is wrong” article / you tube vid and on and on.

    I will just say that scientific theory is constantly EVOLVING. changing it’s ideas to best reflect the evidence we find in the real world. Scientists get it wrong, sure. Some of them are corrupt and occasionally evidence is fabricated to further their careers. But those people are ultimately exposed as fauds by the rest of the scientific community and the fields they worked in once again corrected to reflect that. Science is the best tool we have for understanding the world around us and our place in it.

    Religion is claiming to have all the answers right from the start. History has proven that this is clearly not true, it’s time for the human race to grow up and face the real world.

  22. **** Its going to take a while to digest all this info. I’ll reply once I finish my current design deadline in a couple of days :)

  23. Thanks for the links Dustie and Magnus, I will try to read and watch all the links (although this might take a while) and then make a comment.

    Magnus wrote: “Miska → You are correct, that was Andrews comment, and probably from one of the other threads I was reading. I appologise for that.”

    It was not Andrews comment either, I think you should read Andrews comment again and be more careful with what you claim other people have stated. I would agree with Andrews comment, but not with your misrepresentation of it.

    Magnus wrote: “I’m guessing you are not a young earth creationist then. More of a liberal, open to interpretation, don’t take every single word of the bible literally, it’s just a guide etc.etc kind of christian.”

    No, I am definitely a young-earth creationist.

  24. Miska -> That is Matt you were quoting, not me :) As you see, it is easy to get confused ;-)

    Andrew -> Still waiting for a response on the T-rex tissue. I meen that was one of the “facts” in the movie. A bunch of bad evidence doesnt make one good. Like Brian Dunning would have said… “Be Sceptic!”

  25. Miska that was myself, matt and not magnus that made those comments and here is one of the places where andrew states that he knows god is real cos he feels it. I urge u to read the link i posted earlier on delusion u all really need to.

    Adrew stated in the atheist bus campaign thread that :

    Then, once you Know Him, His Spirit will be in you…and you KNOW that he’s real. I’m not joking, you can feel the LORD just like you can your own thoughts and being.

  26. @Miska → Thanks for the discussion.

    @Matt → I could explain in my own words, but the following article from the same site: “With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is correct?”:

    Which starts: There is no doubt that the number of different religions in the world makes it a challenge to know which one is correct. First, let’s consider some thoughts on the overall subject and then look at how one might approach the topic in a manner that can actually get to a right conclusion about God. The challenge of different answers to a particular issue is not unique to the topic of religion. For example, you can sit 100 math students down, give them a complex problem to solve, and it is likely that many will get the answer wrong. But does this mean that a correct answer does not exist? Not at all. Those who get the answer wrong simply need to… Read more here. (http://www.gotquestions.org/correct-religion.html)

    @Magnus → The evidence for evolution is the same evidence for creationism. We just interpret it from our own presumptions and initial beliefs.

    In regards to the T-Rex issue, oh course an evolutionist is going to say the tissue is 70 million years old. Theres no proof for this, this an assumption on the interpretation of the facts. By the same facts, a creationist deem that the blood cells are 100-2000 old.

    I don’t actually need evidence, I have faith. Faith is what’s needed. I posted this video to try and reach people like you. There’s only so much convincing I can try and do. Its God that does the calling. Is God calling you?

    @Dustie → Firstly, Christianity is not a religion. You’re thinking along the lines of Catholicism and Islam. Christianity is living for Jesus, after excepting what he did for us:

    [For God So Loved the World]
    [16] “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. [18] Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. [19] And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. [20] For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. [21] But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
    (John 3:16-21 ESV)

    By the way, you cant be a Christian and belief in Evolution. Evolution is a way of explaining away the creation of God. True Christians do the will of the Father, that is firstly, believing His word and living for Jesus. If you don’r believe His word, you’re just a believer in God; not a Christian.

    @Matt → What I was trying to explain there was my Passion for Jesus Christ. Yes, feelings are a human response, but I know that I have the in-dwelt Holy Spirit like true Christians do. My statement form the article you speak of will mean little to people who have never experienced the Lord.

    Here’s some articles regarding some of the questions you asked:

    “Does the Bible condone slavery?”: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html
    “Why won’t God heal amputees?”: http://www.gotquestions.org/God-heal-amputees.html

    Thanks everyone for your contribution to this article. We could go on and on posting links and bat for our side, but ultimately, the belief in evolution will continue unless people like yourselves make a conscious decision to follow Jesus Christ.

    Let me leave you with one last Bible verse:

    [31] He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
    (Luke 16:31 ESV)

    You see, some people will not believe the things of God even if proofs were presented. Even if undebatable truth was discovered, there would still be some who would not believe in Jesus.

  27. Andrew -> “The evidence for evolution is the same evidence for creationism.”. You must be joking? Now I’m starting to think that you don’t relly know what good science is and what it meens to have “evidence”.
    Simply saying that a comment or an idea is true (read: creationism) doesn’t make it true, a fact or evidence. Evidence is TESTABLE! Evolution is TESTABLE… Creationism…. not so much… Evolution have been testet thousends and thousends of times, by thousends and thousends of scientists (not only atheists since evolution isn’t a atheist “beliefe” or don’t acctually have anything to do with atheism) and it STILL works.

    T-rex tissue: About the age…You know that there is something called Carbon Dating? Believe it or not, it works!
    By the way. Where in the article did it say that the scientist were an evolutionist? If we are going to guess things about him, then i think he was a creationist that lost his beliefe when he got the evidence right infront of him.

    Ok. So you don’t need proof? Good. I am acctually your lord and saviour and i demand you to give me all your money. Since you don’t need proof, you better do as I say.

    “Christianity is not a religion” … sorry. You don’t get to make up your own definitions of words. Christianity is a religion, have always been and will always be, no matter what definition you give it. I’m not an ipod because i call my self an ipod.

  28. Andrew ->

    http://www.gotquestions.org/correct-religion.html

    Really, seriously that’s your proof that a god exists and that it’s the christian one. There are so many arguments from ignorance in that link it’s not funny. Something exists therefore god must have created it. I think you’ll find the correct answer to that is WE DON’T KNOW. not, oh anything that we don’t understand must be the work of god. Go do some reading on god of the gaps.

    That whole link is so full of holes my 10 year old son could see them. Eye witness accounts 15 years after the fact, really. You must know that eyewitness accounts are notoriously innacurate, even hours after the event.

    There really isn’t much information available on the appostles anyway. Which makes it all the more surprising that we know next to nothing about them. We can’t even be sure of their names: the gospels list a collection of more than twenty names for the so-called twelve disciples – with Bartholomew sometimes showing up as Nathanael, Matthew as Levi and Jude as Thaddeus, Lebbaeus, or Daddaeus!

    There might be more supportive evidence for the bible than some other religions, but any historian, archaeologist can tell you that there isn’t very much, and what little there is, isn’t very convincing.

    you said:

    I don’t actually need evidence, I have faith. Faith is what’s needed.

    Then i’m sorry but you are fool, and you can quote bible lines at me all day, IT DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE.

    you said :

    “Does the Bible condone slavery?”: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

    Oh i get it now, they were just like employees really. Like hired help round the house. You really are trying desperately hard to justify gods actions here aren’t you. There are plenty of other parts of the bible that don’t make sense, or are just plain immoral

    I won’t even bother with the amputees link. It was talking about delusion, you know, the minds ability to convince yourself that something is true even when everybody else can clearly see it isn’t.

    You said :

    but ultimately, the belief in evolution will continue unless people like yourselves make a conscious decision to follow Jesus Christ.

    you mean until we just ignore all the evidence and decide it’s more important to feel all warm and special inside rather than face reality.

    You are correct there is no point continuing this discussion. You are the very definition of delusional and there is nothing anyone can say or do that would will make you see that. You don’t know how to think rationally, logically or critically when it comes to the topic of god, for you the bible has all the answers, and even when the statements contained within it directly contradict sane peoples morality and physical EVIDENCE you refuse to accept it.

    Every day I feel lucky to be living in a country that is almost entirely secular. We have less theft, divorce, violent crime, teen births, abortion and systematic brainwashing of children in school than all the predominately religious places and I am so glad that my children will grow up critical thinkers, enjoying the one life we KNOW is real.

    On a side note, the ‘what does heaven look like’ thread was hilarious, like an art class crit in a mental asylum. I laughed so hard i cried.

  29. Dustie wrote ”Here are some links to articles, some recent, on evolution having proof.”

    I read all the articles you linked to as proof of evolution. The first article about the lizard was very interesting, but it also lacked some vital information about how the skinks retain the eggs inside their bodies. Here’s a good short response to that article: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/09/04/news-to-note-09042010#three

    The second article (The Short Proof of Evolution) didn’t really contain any proof of evolution, but was more like an explanation of certain observations thru the lens of evolutionary thinking. It was interesting to see how the author starts with ”the fact of evolution” as his presupposition and then continues to present certain observations that he then interpreted according to his presupposition as proof of evolution. The third article was another example of how to interpret observations thru the lens of evolutionary thinking.

    Magnus wrote ”Regarding mountains of evidence for evolution… there is mountains.. just look on “evolution” on wikipedia and read the links at the bottom. There are over 300 references and links to external sources. You might want to read the text on wikipedia as well. It’s quite good.”

    I read the article about evolution on Wikipedia. It was an interesting read (although quite long for an article, 21 pages when I printed it), but I didn’t find any clear proof for evolution (and with this I mean of course marcoevolution, since I would affirm microevolution to be true). If you are willing to read, here’s links to responses to some of the so-called proofs for evolution, that are referred to in the Wikipedia article:

    Chimp genome sequence very different from man
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0905chimp.asp

    Peppered moths
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/09/03/peppered-moths-back

    Is Natural Selection the Same Thing as Evolution?
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/is-natural-selection-evolution

    Setting the Record Straight on Vestigial Organs
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v3/n1/setting-record-straight-vestigial

    “Evolution” of Finch Beaks
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v1/n1/evolution-finch-beaks-again

    Similarities don’t prove evolution
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i2/evolution.asp

    Magnus wrote ”If you dont feel like reading, here you can watch some movies that are easy to follow: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/educators/teachstuds/svideos.html”
    I also watched all those videos and it was a nice introduction to evolution, but I didn’t see any real proof for evolution.

    Magnus wrote ”Miska -> That is Matt you were quoting, not me As you see, it is easy to get confused”

    You are right Magnus, thanks for correcting me. Sorry for confusing your names. But there’s definitely a big difference in a clear mistatement of names and purposeful misrepresentation of what someone has said.

  30. @Magnus & Matt → You are both consistently hostile, and therefor I will not continue to engage in endless debate with you. If you’re looking for a hostile debate, this is not the place to find it.

    If on the other hand you ever choose to accept was Jesus did for you on the Cross, or truly seeking Him, I’ll be here available to answer any genuine question you may have.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ: http://www.answersingenesis.org/about/good-news

  31. “By the way, you cant be a Christian and belief in Evolution. Evolution is a way of explaining away the creation of God. True Christians do the will of the Father, that is firstly, believing His word and living for Jesus. If you don’t believe His word, you’re just a believer in God; not a Christian.” –Andrew quote

    Andrew: All Genesis says is that God created the heavens and the earth. It doesn’t state what method He used. So to claim that everyone who thinks God might have employed evolution in the creation process isn’t a Christian (only a “God Believer”), is stupid and anti-Christian, as it amounts to one Christian attacking other Christians.

  32. @Christopher → Genesis does say how God did it; He created it in 6 days. Trying to fit evolution into the Bible is plain heretical and futile thinking. For starters, God created the Sun after the plants, so the 6 days don’t represent 6 long periods of time where evolution took it’s course.

  33. Andrew,
    You are quite wrong–Genesis does not say how God created the heavens and the earth. Whether the creation time span was six 24-hour days or not is a different question. Addressing a different topic than the one I brought is not legitimate form of argument.

  34. @Andrew → I guess by hostile you mean I disagree with your position.

    You are picking and choosing your evidence to match your beliefs. I something agrees then it’s scientifically proven evidence for the existence of god and that the events in the bible happened. However if it doesn’t agree then it must be wrong. You are happy to accept science and the scientific method for everything in your life (I’m guessing if one of your children was sick you’d go to the doctor rather than pray that they got better)

    You never really answered my questions about all the killing, how god really goes nuts and orders the murder of thousands of people, raping of women, children to be stoned to death for not obeying their parents (You planning on using that one on your children, i bet not) Have I misread this stuff because it’s pretty clearly stated in the bible. Do you just ignore this stuff?

  35. @Matt → I’m not picking and choosing my evidence. I don’t need any evidence at at; I have faith in Jesus. I posted the video for the unbelievers benefit.

    Don’t forget that evolution is a process of trying to explain-away God, I believe. All “evidence” is therefore taken from a presumed viewpoint of the Universe appearing in the “Big Bang”.

    Go does not “Go nuts”. Such disrespectful language about the Creator of the Universe are idol words which may be presented before you on the Day of Judgement.

    Yes, God ordered killings of savage people 1000’s of years ago. This was in an ancient time in history when some tribes even sacrificed their own children to “the gods”. You cant just pick up the brutal-sounding parts of of Gods Word, whilst ignoring Gods great compassion too.

    The LORD is Not a God of love. He’s a God of both perfect love—and perfect hate towards Sin, too.

    I don’t ignore the challenging parts of the Bible; I read the whole thing.

  36. Am I supposed to be convinced by the video you posted initially. I mean almost every claim he makes in it is refuted by 99.9% of his peers. I think that probably means he’s wrong.

    Evolution isn’t trying to explain away anything. It’s trying to understand how we came to be here the best way we know how, using science, you know, develop a theory, theory predicts outcome, observe outcome predicted by theory, likelyhood that theory is correct is strengthened.

    Religion offers no real answers to anything. Without science and the scientific method, we would not be having this conversation over the internet.

    God does get pretty angry with everyone quite often in the old testament have you not read it? Blah blah judgement day etc. etc. You have no idea.

    Either he committed numerous acts of mass murder, or he didn’t. I don’t care if he helped a few people out now and again, he is still immoral by my and any other sane human beings standards.

    Blah, blah, god is love etc. etc. all totally meaningless

    I’m sure you don’t ignore the challenging parts, but I’m almost certain that you don’t live by them.

    Look at it from the average persons perspective. The bible is just a book. It’s not even a very good one. It reads like a book written by a bunch of ignorant goat hearders that didn’t know any better. It offers no convincing evidence to support the existence of a god, much of it’s contradictory and immoral, and yet It tells me that I must believe all this is the word of an all powerful being responsible for creating everything. I mean it’s not very compelling is it. The god of the bible doesn’t seem to be interested in how well you lived your life, how kind and considerate you were to fellow human beings or animals for that matter. He just wants you do accept everything in the bible on faith even when it makes no sense.

    I would be a fool to just go along with that. Why would I not choose to become a mormon instead. I mean that’s an equally unprovable story, no real evidence, lots of followers. Why wouldn’t I pick that one, what is the one thing that proves christianity is the correct way above all others. There isn’t anything is there.

    Nothing.

    Religions were created by men to explain the things in the world they didn’t understand, and to keep people (usually poor people being treated terribly) happy with the thought that no matter how bad things got in this life, when you died you would be rewarded somehow, afterlife, virgins etc. etc.

  37. No response to any of those tricky questions then. I guess that’s to be expected, after all as soon as you start to notice that god acts like a bit of a maniac in the bible it’s best to just stop talking about it and go do something else. Pretend those verses aren’t there eh.

    Anyway, Good luck, I hope sanity prevails.

  38. @Matt

    Quote: Religion offers no real answers to anything

    Finally something we both agree on. Yes, you’re right. Religion is man-made; Im into relationship with the God of the universe.

    Quote: Either he committed numerous acts of mass murder, or he didn’t. I don’t care if he helped a few people out now and again, he is still immoral by my and any other sane human beings standards.

    Like it or not, God is God. One day you will stand before Him on Judgement Day, as well as everyone else. Calling the Eternal God “immoral” is nothing short of blasphemy. Don’t do it again on my blog.

    Quote: Blah, blah, god is love etc. etc. all totally meaningless

    Yet again, we agree on something. You’re right, saying that God is a God of love is wrong, in my opinion. The LORD Jesus is a God of both Love and Hate. He loves righteousness and hates sin.

    Quote: I would be a fool to just go along with that. Why would I not choose to become a mormon instead.

    Mormonism is a fairly new perversion of the true Gospel of Christ. This is a cult. Cults arise when people don’t want the truth.

    Quote: No response to any of those tricky questions then.

    Matt, I don’t have the answers for everything. I just have faith, and without faith, there’s no pleasing the LORD. When I get to Heaven, I’ll probably know everything then. I pray that in your life time you’ll turn from accusing the God of being immoral, to accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

    Bible Quote: Psalm 14:1
        The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God ”

  39. Once again you didn’t really answer any questions.

    Either you think murder is immoral or you don’t. It doesn’t matter that god did it.

    You have NO EVIDENCE that anything will happen after you die. Even less that you go to a place called heaven. So saying that is meaningless.

    ok well The LORD Jesus is a God of both Love and Hate… blah blah, all still meaningless.

    You said – Mormonism is a fairly new perversion of the true Gospel of Christ. This is a cult. Cults arise when people don’t want the truth.

    And how does it differ from Christianity. Is there an age thing. It can’t be correct because it’s not old enough!! Or doesn’t have as many followers! It’s still a faith based belief that has no supporting evidence.

    Please explain to me how one gets from my position of non belief, to your position of unwavering acceptance, without ignoring evidence, logic or reason.

    How does one go about convincing other people that their religion is the correct one? After all, if its based on faith and not reason, your faith is by definition really no more a reasonable position than anyone else’s.

    I can’t make myself believe. I can’t pretend that I belive. If god is all knowing then that isn’t going to work.

    How do I know which religion to choose? Am I supposed to just make a wild guess and then if I get it wrong I am condemmed to hell. Not really fair is it. God offers lots of options (many gods, all seemingly as likely as any other), no evidence to believe any of them, asks me to just pick the correct one without any help and then punishes me if i get it wrong. How unfair is that!

    Please present to me in clearly using LOGIC how your god is the one true god, and if all you are going to do is keep repeating that you have faith then we are done.

  40. Oh and you never said if you believe everything that man with the lab coat states in the original video you posted here. Do you? yes or no.

  41. @Matt → You’re correct, you cannot make yourself believe. A running theme in the new testament is that anyone who eventually accepts Jesus as their Lord and Saviour only do so because God opens their hearts to Him in the first place.

    Although, this does not absolve human responsibility for our actions. Many people actually believe in God, it’s just that many want God to be a God of their own liking, mixed with their own rules.

    If your heart is hard towards God, I will not be able to convince you. Only God can draw you to Him. The very fact that you are curious as to who the true God is means that you may be able to be saved, but you are going to have to seek Him.

    There are lots of things in the Bible I don’t understand, but it doesn’t mean that you have to be hostile towards God just because you don’t understand them. The Bible should be read a whole, complete set of works. It dangerous to pick and choose certain verses about Gods Judgements on people without knowing the whole story.

    Theres no need to “pick and guess” which religion is correct. The Bible contains a large amount of prophesies. Of these, 99% have already come to pass, being 100% correct. The proof of the “Christian God” is in His Word, which although has several translations, is perfect in its meaning and perfect in prophesy.

    Do I believe everything that man with the lab coat states in the original video? To be honest Matt, I watched it once and posted it as a great example of an alternative trail of thought to believing in evolution. He may not be right on everything, but the concept/massage is there:

    God created the Heavens and the Earth. The story is in His Word.

    If you want answers to who God is, try asking God directly! Maybe this will get you somewhere in life. Only, do it with a sincere, humble heart.
    If your heart is hard towards God, I will not be able to convince you. Only God can draw you to Him. The very fact that you are curious as to who the true God is means that you may be able to be saved, but you are going to

  42. My heart is not hard towards god. I see no evidence that one exists. I mean I could say well we are here and something can’t come from nothing so there must be a creator. But I don’t KNOW that something can’t come from nothing. I mean just because I don’t understand how we came to be here, doesn’t mean it must be god. You must see the logic in that. History is full of mysteries that originally were attributed to magic or god or just something supernatural, only to be explained by science many years later.

    The man in the lab coat might as well say aliens did it. Who cares if he is offering another option. All the evidence points to evolution. That’s just the way it is, sorry. You can keep wishing for evidence that it was god in 6 days a few thousand years ago, but as time goes on the evidence supporting evolution just keeps growing, simple as that.

    I am not hostile towards the bible. I am meerly pointing out that there are some serious conflicts in the stories contained in it. I mean I’m not making that up there really is, and as soon as you accept that the whole thing starts to unravel.

    Please list all the prophesies that have come true that couldn’t have been guessed.

  43. @Matt → I was watching a program last week about “how the Universe was Created”. It was a new program on Nat Geo I think. This documentary was obviously bias towards evolutionary-thinking, but it was a great to watch.

    However, in this program, the scientists were talking about dark-matter. Now, dark matter cannot be measured, smelt, touched or seen. No scientist can confirm it’s existence, but all say that it is there )otherwise the Universe would fly apart).

    I found it odd that these scientists have a sort of faith that dark matter exists because they could see the effects that it has on creation. This isn’t too far off the faith that a Christian has in God the Creator. Like dark matter, God cannot be measured, smelt, touched or seen in this life, yet faith is what’s required of us.

    Many people have faith, it where we choose to place that faith is what matters. I can’t prove to you that God exists; faith is what pleases God.

    As the the prophesies that have all come true, I think there is about 2000 in all; here’s a sample:

    Predicted ca. 855 BC: The prophet Elijah predicts Jezebel would be eaten by dogs upon her death in Jezreel. (1 Kings 21:23)– Fulfilled ca. 841 BC: Jezebel is killed in Jezreel and dogs eat her body (2 Kings 9:36).

    Predicted ca. 760 BC: Amos predicts Israel would be restored as a nation and would never be uprooted again (Amos 9:15)–Fulfilled in 1948.

    Predicted ca 732 BC: Isaiah predicts the Medo-Persian empire will conquer Babylon [Isaiah 13:17-18] and Babylon would become a wasteland.–Fulfilled in 538 BC when the Medes took over Babylon and 275 BC when the Seleucids forced all of the inhabitants to leave.

    Predicted ca. 732 BC: Isaiah says Egypt and Ethiopia would be conquered by Assyria (Isaiah 20:3-5).–Fulfilled ca. 673-670 BC when Assyria conquers the northeast African nations.

    Predicted ca. 701 BC: Isaiah claims Israel will be taken captive by the Babylonian empire (Isaiah 39).–Fulfilled ca. 597 & 586 BC: Babylon takes captives and sacks Jerusalem the first time then totally destroys Jerusalem about 10 years later.

    Predicted ca. 589 BC: Ezekiel tells about the destruction of the great city Tyre (Ezekiel 27).–Fulfilled in 1291: Muslims destroy the city.

    Read a few more here

    There’s also a great resource on Biblical Prophesy on this site. Hope these help you…

  44. Your comments reveal an utter lack of understanding of the scientific process.

    The programs bias towards evolution is because that’s where all the evidence points and that’s the agreed opinion within the scientific community. A community, can I point out that relies on peer review. If someone presents evidence that supports the bibles claims, and it stands up to peer review then that will become the accepted theory.

    If not then it is thrown out and the search continues. Religious belief however can never change even if evidence is presented that contradict it’s claims.

    Yes I have to have faith in the scientific method. Unless I want to spend years and years of my life studying everything that has been discovered, and the reasons it is accepted as fact, I have to put my faith in scientists and the scientific method. A method which has provided incalculable benefits to the human race, opened up the universe to us, Provided medicine, the ability to provide food for the huge ammount of human beings living on the planet today. If everyone ignored science and believed what was written in the bible we’d all still be sacrificing animals, keeping slaves and murdering our children for being rude.

    If there really was evidence for the existence of god, evidence that the whole scientific community could not refute and had to agree was sound. Then the scientist that discovered it would be the greatest human being to have ever existed.

    THAT’S how it HAS to work. Otherwise ANYONE can make up ANYTHING they like and claim it’s true.

    That is why religion is useless at explaining anything about the natural world. You already think you have all the answers, and no matter how much they contradict everything we have discovered about the universe, you are unable to adjust your views to match reality as that would mean the bible is incorrect, and if that part is wrong then which other parts are wrong. Why would god write something in there that is clearly in contradiction with what we can see.

    Bertrand Russell wrote, “Where there is evidence, no one speaks of ‘faith’. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence.

    i think those predictions are all pretty vague, and not very impressive. If you look you can see that there are a whole lot of bible predictions that never came true also. How do you explain those? Common sense would tell you that they are all just guesses some of which came true, some of which didn’t. If god really wanted to impress and inspire then something very very specific would do the trick. Number of planets in the solar system etc. etc. etc.

    You are so deluded if you think Christianity is the only religion that contains predictions. Do the predictions presented by other religions mean that they are evidence of their gods existence. No they don’t. Why do their claims of predictive power to provide evidence of the existence of god not persuade you?

    You are an atheist when it comes to other religions. To you their claims are absurd. I just go one religion further and claim NONE of them has any evidence to support their claims.

  45. I have read several of these postings where the writer has stated that evolution has been proven as a fact. This statement only shows that the writer has been indoctrinated (brainwashed) into a way of belief that has been “proven” because it has been repeated often enough that it is now believed as being proven true, without being properly tested.

    A modern-day example of something being said so many times by leaders (Hitler & Nazis) that the governed (German people) eventually believed it was true (Jews are the cause of your problems) lead to the holocaust during World War II. There was no truth to the statements, Hitler just hated the fact that he was a quarter-Jew.

    In order to be called a theory, a model must be re-testable. What was the original atmosphere like? No person knows. Assumptions can be made, but it is still an assumption. For example Miller tried to prove that life could evolve, but his experiments showed that right-handed amino acids would be formed. Problem? Life is made of only left-handed amino acids (symmetrical to the right-handed ones.) Your right and left hands are not identical. You cannot fit a left hand into a right-handed “fitted” glove. That means that we have to accept both by faith (sounds like a religion, by definition.)
    for further details see:
    http://www.albalagh.net/kids/science/evolution.shtml

    Some of you are just repeating what has been told you for so long and you are accepting it as “fact.” Do you know how they date fossils? They are given the age of the rocks in which they are found. Do you know how they date the rocks, they are given an age by the index fossils they contain. Kinda sounds like a dog chasing its tail. This kind of reasoning is called circular reasoning.

    A true scientist is supposed to be objective to new data. It is amazing that the model of evolution has changed many times as new data is revealed. For example, in 1972 Steven Jay Gould co-published a paper which declared “punctuated equilibrium.” Until this, evolution had to be a slow process, but evidence supported a need for rapid appearance of species. There is nothing about evolution which is quick. Evolution takes time…lots of time.

    Mt Saint Helens in Washington erupted on May 18, 1980. In the subsequent years a canyon has formed. It is smaller than but very similar to the Grand Canyon in Arizona. It has been assumed that the Grand Canyon could only be formed through the erosive forces applied over millions of years, yet we know the birth date of this latest canyon and we know how it formed. It was not slow, but rather VERY rapid.

    Creationism has remained the same for all of recorded time, evolutionism has changed what it says as the evidence changes. Which one does the evidence support? What will evolution be when the next contradicting evidence appears? Neither evolution, nor creation, can be called a theory, they are both models and both require faith to believe. If you are truly a scientist you will have an open mind.

  46. Andrew,
    Have you considered that Creation Science says not only Darwin is wrong, but Einstein? I have met Believers who think that a 3-hour seminar from Ken Ham gives them Deep Science–they really believe they know more than scientists working in biology and physics. They believe they know more than Einstein.
    Have you considered that in your acceptance of what is a uniquely American movement? Creation Science began in 1961 with the book The Genesis Flood. Before that no one called the literal interpretation of Genesis science.
    We are communicating on a medium that could not exist if Einstein was wrong–the physics that led to transistors and integrated circuits comes out of quantum physics which follows relativity physics.
    Please don’t try to bully me with Scripture references. I grew up Jewish, became a believer after a missile test explosion while I as serving during Viet Nam. My Hebrew is rusty but I read NT and Ancient Greek.
    But I do honestly want to know if you have thought about your beliefs in the context of the reality of modern physics and technology.
    Till Heaven clears all this up,
    Neil

  47. Neil → Apparently, Einstein was wrong on E=Mc[squared]. He stated that nothing can move faster than the speed of light, however, scientists now dispute this: Was Einstein wrong?.

    I don’t believe it’s possible for me to “bully you with Scripture references”, as you have voluntarily commented on my site. I wouldn’t expect you to go into a battlefield without a gun, so I don’t discuss Christian issues without God’s Holy Word.

    If you truly believe in God, and except his one and only son Jesus Christ, you must also believe that the Bible in free of mistakes and is 100% true.

    »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
    2 Timothy 3:16 > All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, ..
    »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»

    We could argue ’till the cows come home, but start your basis for believe in God’s Holy Word, trust in Jesus, and except that some issues probably won’t be resolved (such as creationism vs. evolution) until you meet your Creator on the Day of Judgement.

  48. I see this an old tread, but I ran across it while reading some stuff on the subject of your post. I was trying to find non-christians and evolutionists that believe dinos and man coexisted. Why does every subject like this come down to “only christians believe that!”? Why does a person have to be “christian” to believe something he feels makes more sense? I just don’t buy the evolution story. I fully believe in adaptation, but the big bang is a blatantly stupid idea to anyone one that takes two seconds to think about it. The idea that all matter “exploded” or the common thought is that it expanded from nothing defies logic. Something cannot come from nothing <– you cannot dissprove that.

    Anyway, I'm off subject. All stories or myths come from something. The idea of Zuse came from people seeing lighting. Now you cannot say lighting doesn't exist. Their interpretation of it may have been way off, but the sky was throwing these bright, jagged things at them. So, maybe the question is, not did people and dinos live together, but what did ancient people see that was the basis for Dragons? Every culture has stories of dragons. Every single one, and all through history. So these people had to, at some point, seen something similar to a dragon to come up with the idea.

    That's just my 2 cents. If you want to slam on me for having a different view of things than you, go ahead. I just think there is too much in human history that has been lost to make a full declaration that everything you believe (or a scientist says) is fact. We are finding out all the time that ancient people had alot of the same knowledge and many of the same technologies that we are just discovering today. We have no full idea of what all these people witnessed. We only have guesses.

  49. Hi, just wanted to add a comment regarding God being a ‘murderer’. Since God gives life, it is in His hands to take it. However, it is not in man’s hands to take life. The people that died in the old testament at God’s command were doing things that would appear vile to most people, let alone a Holy God.

    The Assyrian’s were known for delighting in slowly torturing their victims to death. Skinning them alive, whatever they could think of to result in a slow, painful death. Yet, despite this, God sent them a prophet to warn them. They repented and God had mercy on them. How many of us would have mercy on them if they had tortured one of our loved ones to death in this way?

    The Israelites were a nation chosen by God to bring the messiah into the world. They lived in a barbaric time. Unfortunately, this world will again see just how evil men can be towards one another before all is said and done. It’s amazing that we can witness what men are capable of doing to one another and then cry that God is mean for bringing judgement. Yet we do.

  50. Jesus is good, ALL THE TIME! The proper translation in the ten commandments concerning killing is murder. Just as any judge here would sentence a law breaker. Jesus is judging the world right now in the holy place of the sanctuary in heaven. Most people are have not studied the bible with greek/hebrew original translates to have clear understanding of what most of these people (on this page) are babbling about… By the way EVOLUTION,DARWINISM,THEISM IS DEAD. Existence of God IS scientifically mathematically proven to be fact and scientists one by one have seen the truth presented and have been converted over. This info has been out for a few years now, but the bulk of the population has not a clue of it.- –

    I love when I give my Evolution dvd to people around town. After they have watch it, they ALL are stopped in there tracks about the theory and begin a interest to know on God. Do your own research folks and stop putting FAITH in media/journals.

  51. “Yes, God ordered killings of savage people 1000′s of years ago. This was in an ancient time in history when some tribes even sacrificed their own children to “the gods”. You cant just pick up the brutal-sounding parts of of Gods Word, whilst ignoring Gods great compassion too.”

    I laughed out loud when I read this, how savage and terrible of those ancient lowly tribes. Sacrificing their own children to the gods. Tsk tsk, terrible. Reminds me a bit of Genesis 2:22

    2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

    What type of horrible savage people would be willing to do that and what horrific god would ask for that?? Or worse yet, what savage god would sacrifice his own son.

    Christianity is yet another cheap facsimile in a long list of faiths based on deities who were virgin born (or half mortal/half god lineage), sons of god, performed miracles, resurrected, ascended/descended to afterlife, and performed communal meals of bread and wine among other things. Dionysus, Mithras, and Osiris being the most prominent. Just another cult of human sacrifice to the objective observer. In a couple thousand years Christianity will be largely forgotten except for phd dissertations and possibly Halloween costumes just like all the other extinct religions like the Pharaohs and Greek gods.

    I appreciate your true belief in this as I used to believe it to, but surely even if you do not waiver in your faith it must be somewhat apparent how absurd it looks to outsiders? Not trying to offend I just am honestly confused if it isn’t clear that it would at least seem silly to non believers. Cheers!

Comments are closed.